Heidi Anderson: 0:00
This video went viral and I have never been trolled so hard in my life. I was, I was about to ask you about it. Yeah, it was insane. And a lot of people say, you know, but why are you reading those comments? Well, when they come on your page, I don’t read the things that people say on when I’m on studio 10 and if they’ve got it on their Facebook page, I don’t read that because there’s going to be people that don’t understand, there’s going to be people that it’s going to bring up their shit. There’s going to be mean motherfuckers everywhere always, you know? And so I choose not to read in other places, but when it comes onto your own page and I was checking comments and things from my event in Sydney and promoting my book. It was just like negative comment after I’ve never experienced like 24 hours of like, I get it. Like when these kids or, you know, you’re getting trolled online, just bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, mean stuff. And I ended up doing a post only the other day, which is maybe that’s what you saw. And they were quite nice. The comments that people had said like, and they were still mean, but these comments were horrific. And I questioned again. You know how going back to the girl that messaged me when my book came out, I started to question my message. Like, do I get in my bra and undies? Do I do this? Am I doing, am I putting these other people at risk that want to come with me? And just started questioning everything. And what I realized in that moment was I was scared. I was just scared. I was genuinely scared and fear had been, fear was rearing its head. I started to. Maybe question what they were saying was, is this true? And then I had to come back to myself and I reached out to a couple of my girlfriends who are leaders in that space. And then again, it just came back to the conversation is bigger than you, mate. This is your test from the universe. If you really want to change the world heights, which is what, you know, the impact, you know, that may mean that’s what we want to do. If you really want to do that, you’re going to have this.
Katherine Iscoe: 2:07
Welcome everyone to another episode of Secrets in the City. I’m your host, Dr. Katherine Isko. Although everyone just calls me Dr. Kat. Yes. And gosh, Dolly, do we have, I just know this episode is going to be everything I wanted for this podcast because my guest. It just has such an incredible and colorful and rabbit hole kind of background. And funnily enough, we spent so much time together in these chairs. Without further ado, Heidi,
Heidi Anderson: 2:39
welcome back. Oh my gosh, I feel like just I’ve gone back in time, but I’m a totally different person. And well, I have goosebumps too, because I mean, we’re obviously going to get into it, but there is just, I have to say, before we get started, you’ve been such a pivotal part of where I have got to today. And I say that with so much love and admiration, and I know I’m getting teary as well, because honestly, there was times that I sat in this chair. That I thought that I was never going to feel how I feel today, like, and it’s because you know, you’ve been a massive part of my journey and you’re a huge chunk right there in the middle when I was working radio. So, I am honored to be here. Yeah. Just keep on talking. I
Katherine Iscoe: 3:25
know. It means, I get emotional when people say that because… You know, there’s three things that I love doing in life, hugging people, helping people and buying shoes, but it’s really the helping people. And I always say I’ve had a successful day. If someone message messages me and just said, you know, that last post just made a difference. And hearing you say that, because it got bumpy
Heidi Anderson: 3:49
for a while. Oh my God. So bumpy and I
Katherine Iscoe: 3:52
remember you sitting in this chair and I actually sat down on the ground and was just holding your legs. Do you remember that? Because I could feel if you were fighting it, or fighting just being yourself, and I knew you had to get through it.
Heidi Anderson: 4:08
Katherine Iscoe: 4:12
just remember holding your legs, and I knew that it was going to go one way or the other. I knew in my heart that you were going to go to where you are today, but it’s like that holding your hand when I was saying like when someone’s in a dark cave and they don’t know which direction to go in and they seem scared and angry and that’s where
Heidi Anderson: 4:32
you were. Oh my God. And like I said, just so many layers and it wasn’t just you, you just helped me. Exactly that what you said, like find myself because working in breakfast radio and TV and you know, the public space, I arm it up and it’s been a journey now in de armoring and you know, wearing all those masks and everything. And yes, of course, I’m sure I still have masks at times. Do you know what I mean? That I put on or my armor goes up or whatever, like it. Um, but I, that’s what I, that’s what was the big cracking point for me. And just, I spent so much time in my head. It just would never ever stop. And I think working in that public space with a lot of egos, my co hosts, um, the public having an opinion on you for someone who, Actually was petrified really of what people thought of them. I’d put myself in a really, you know, tough position. The worst position ever. And I remember, and I
Katherine Iscoe: 5:31
was reminded of it, um, in your book, which we were definitely going to get through.
Heidi Anderson: 5:36
Um, there was a comment from a
Katherine Iscoe: 5:38
guy, I believe this was Alien Bunbury, who said something You’re fat and you’re not funny and you shouldn’t be on the radio or
Heidi Anderson: 5:50
something to that effect. Yeah, and I think he’s like, you have more chins than a Chinese phone book or something like that as well. Like it was, and now like I can actually laugh and go, whatever. Like, what are you doing with your life, mate? Excellent point. Yeah. Excellent point. And you know, I think. Like, I actually, this was one of the things when I was thinking about the whole concept of this, you know, secrets and stuff like that, what we keep in that. And I’m like, I’ve actually been an arsehole of people and said things too. And so I put those in the book to paint the picture of. Why I have some of my issues, it’s not just what they’ve said, but the stories that I created from possibly one interaction with one person, you know, like that comment and it actually made me reflect a lot on what I’ve said. And this comes up a lot for me now recently, I think as I’m evolving and as I’m really, you know, developing myself personally, it is, I’m reflecting a lot on like some of the comments that I’ve made, you know, or at high school when I didn’t have this awareness. And, you know, like, and probably did say some really nasty things to people. Yeah. And, and I think, and I sit there and I think like, fuck, well, are they sitting in a psych’s chair today? Reliving like that one comment that I said? Maybe. Yeah. But I,
Katherine Iscoe: 7:06
I would step back and say, at least you have the self awareness to say, you know what, I did that and I potentially hurt someone. Yes.
Heidi Anderson: 7:14
Whereas a lot of people
Katherine Iscoe: 7:15
would just go and just say, well. it, or, you know, they’ll be okay. You actually are compassionate enough to think that. Yeah. It shows me that change
Heidi Anderson: 7:27
is happening. Oh, and writing this book brought up so much that then I’ve like had to continue to heal. So it came out in October last year and. Funnily enough, is this funny? I don’t know. But I received a troll message, a quite a long troll message from someone I went to high school with. And they had said that I, and I was actually about this in my podcast and I haven’t actually talked about this publicly. I wrote something in my book from a couple of things that had happened years ago, but there was actually something that happened really recently. And it made me, I questioned publishing my book because I was so scared. of people coming out with pitchforks, being like, she’s a fake, she’s a fucking asshole. She’s not really this good person. Cause I know I’m a good person now, but there is times in my life where I haven’t been. And I’ve treated people like shit. My mom, my dad, my brother, my husband, you know, my son too. And you know, then all of these other people that I’ve come across too, like I’m not a perfect person. And I’m not a perfect person. But it’s, and I know, but like that, it was huge for me and I received this message and I am sure that it was from the person who messaged me several years ago when I first started working in the public eye and they put a name to their selves back then. So it was a girl I went to high school with. But the way that it came through, and I just questioned everything. I questioned who I was, I questioned, like, maybe I am this person that they’re saying that I was. And, um, it was huge for me to like work through. And I remember getting the message and I felt sick, like I wanted to vomit. And look, if I reflect on the message. They’re probably not that aware of themselves with how they approached it and didn’t give me their name or anything like that. It was very attacky, but there was felt like there was some truth in there. Can you, can you give us a Do you know what? I was going to try and bring it. I was like, I should really look it up now, shouldn’t I? Why
Katherine Iscoe: 9:27
don’t you look that up? Yeah. I just want to read one quote from your book that I believe is really accurate for what you’re saying, which is I overthink almost everything. I wake in the middle of the night, replaying conversations over and over in my head. Did I offend so and so when I said that? What if she hates me? I’ll sometimes lay awake for hours at a time, analyzing and deconstructing situations or conversations, which is dead accurate about what we’re talking about right now. It’s, it’s really… I mean, who doesn’t do that? And I think the more you replay it, the more you dig yourself into this deep, dark hole and it just makes it worse. It’s kind of like, you know, those old, um, toys that you put in water, they’re tiny, tiny, and then you put them into
Heidi Anderson: 10:18
the water and then it grows. Yes. It’s
Katherine Iscoe: 10:20
kind of like a
Heidi Anderson: 10:21
thought in your head. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s it. The remuneration was so massive for me. Um, I don’t know if I’m going to be able to find it, but basically, um, She said that I was really loud, obnoxious, rude, make other people feel like shit because I was so arrogant. And all of these things that I was like, I don’t, I can tell that I would have probably like I was loud at times and I am the clown. You know, and I, now I get paid to be that part of my person, but you know, I’ve since becoming a mom and seeing like, you know, the things that I don’t want to say to Memphis and, you know, don’t like, I don’t want to say to him, don’t be loud. Don’t be this, don’t be like, do you know what I mean? That like, it was all these things coming up. And I think because like I had received a message, which I write about in my book in 2013, how a girl said that I was a bully at school. And so. It really made me go like, fuck, maybe I am, I’m not this good person. And maybe I’m not a good mom. Like I literally question. And then I remember Memphis running in the front door after his day at daycare. And he wanted to give me the biggest cuddle and I guess originally, yeah. And I felt intense shame, intense shame to be his mom and intense shame to, you know, to be Griffo’s wife. To publish this book because I was like, Oh, I wasn’t asshole. If that, what she’s saying is true. Like I believed everything she said in the message. And then I spoke to a couple of girls that put together our reunion and they kind of think that they know who it was because apparently someone did ask me not to go, which is like a whole nother level. Like I said, and this is me, I’ve never spoke about this publicly. Um, and so I was going, you know, I had to really sit there and reflect and, and it actually brought me to my last chapter in the book where I speak about being unapologetic and yeah, and I think to be the person that I am today, being unapologetic doesn’t mean I’m not. apologizing for the behavior or the things that I’ve said, or, you know, the way that I’ve treated people like a staff member, or, you know, that I might’ve worked with 20 years ago or whatever it was, I know I can be very abrupt. And so part of me becoming unapologetic was actually really reflecting on those moments. And. Taking ownership. And I did put in there like, if I have ever upset you or offended you, or you know, you feel like I haven’t treated you well, I would actually really love to hear from you so that I can apologize. You know? And that’s where I got to. And it’s like, so being unapologetic is, I think, massive reflection and taking ownership and then being able to work through it wasn’t easy. And those days felt really dark and I was in the middle of publishing this book and I had to really find this inner strength and resilience and what I came to was that the conversation is bigger than me. And there’s so many people that are getting bullied. There’s so many people that are treating people like shit on the internet. And then we’re wondering why our kids are telling each other to kill each other on the internet. And it’s like, well, are you seeing what the parents are writing? And seeing the things Like what you said. Yeah. So I was like, I have to speak out about this. And I remember just grabbing Memphis and hugging him and telling Griffon. I just had tears running down my eyes. And he was like, babe. You know, you can’t change that moment, but he’s like, you can reflect. And, you know, we kind of spoke about it. And then I got on the phone to some of my girlfriends from high school and I was searching for that validation. Like, was I mean, was I this, was I that? And, you know, um, one of my girlfriends was like, you know, we were all mean. Like we genuinely were, we have to take ownership of that. There were times when we were mean to other people and there was many people mean to us. And, you know, but Heidi, you’re choosing to work in the public eye. Not everyone’s going to like you. People are going to have stories about you and you don’t have to believe everything that’s said either. You, you are the only one that knows your truth. But I think, like I said, the thing that hurt the most was I’m like reflecting, I’m like, I was an asshole at times. I have so much, I know so much to say there, isn’t there? And
Katherine Iscoe: 14:29
the main thing that’s coming to me is again, that sort of dark cave analogy. There’s so many people who want to change and they start changing. They start feeling that discomfort, that anger, that sadness. that shame. And again, that cave. And the problem is they say, I don’t like it in here. I’m going to go back to what I know, what, what is comfortable.
Heidi Anderson: 14:53
The comfort zone.
Katherine Iscoe: 14:54
Yeah. And then they’re like, oh, okay, this feels better. This is where quote unquote, this is where I should be. Yeah. But they don’t understand that it’s, it’s through that, not to that, but through that is where you start to change. And Oftentimes people say, okay, I’ve done, I’ve done the work. Take a deep boo. You know, I’m going to be this awesome person. I’m like, nope.
Heidi Anderson: 15:17
Then there’s another kid. Oh, it’s daily, isn’t it? It’s like
Katherine Iscoe: 15:21
hourly. It is. And I would say a very small percent of the population want to do that and I
Heidi Anderson: 15:27
don’t blame them. Oh my God. And this is, I mean, you like, I speak about this now, like exposure therapy and I talk a lot about like the fear so I love that you talk about the cave analogy because for me I’ve been reading the book to Memphis you know we’re going on a bear hunt did you ever read that when you were a kid and it’s like yes yeah and so you can’t go like and then they go on the bear hunt which is obviously the bear hunt is like the big fear right like who wants to fucking go on a bear hunt like that’s really uncomfortable and scary and they go through the windstorm and then they go through the mud and then we’ve got to go through the river and the snow and all this stuff and when they’re saying it they’re like we can’t go over it We can’t go under it, we’ve got to go through it, which is exactly what you said and I was like, shit, they’ve been trying to teach us this for years and it wasn’t till I read it to my three year old son that I was like, Oh my God, that’s what I do. I choose to go on a bear hunt every fucking day. You know, and that’s uncomfortable and it’s scary, but I’ve got to go through it to get to the other side. And yeah, so when you said that cave, I was like, oh, that’s what, yeah, that’s it. Yeah. So how, I mean, obviously you’ve gone through multiple. Oh my God. So many since we’ve.
Katherine Iscoe: 16:38
Yeah. And what, like, tell us, how did you get through each cave? Like, who was there? Who was not there? What did
Heidi Anderson: 16:46
you do? When we sat in these chairs before I was working in radio and you were what I’ve been searching for, you know, like someone to actually hear me and see me and understand me and also validate that my feelings were real. And that’s what you always gave to me, you know, and I, and that’s why it was just. Honestly, like I said, I just sit here in so much gratitude and you were such a massive part. Like there’s a book chapter in my book that’s about you. Oh, undermind. Don’t worry, you’re your friend. Just parents . Yeah. I expect that on the wall over there. Yes, totally. Um, but you know, it was talking about unfolding people on Instagram because working the public eye always was comparing myself to people. And do you remember when I sat in these chairs? It was, I was so obsessed with the way that I looked. Yes. And I remember there was one girl. Yes. Yeah. I think it was very, very successful. Yeah. In my, in radio. And I talk about her and she’s one of my good friends and I was kind of mentoring her and then she blew up online and it was, I just couldn’t, you talked about like, you know, those obsessive thoughts. I just couldn’t let it go. And then there was also Charlotte Crosby who I fucking love from Geordie Shore, but I was, I would always watch how much weight she lost. watching. Do you remember I always used to follow accounts that had the weight loss, like before and afters. And I remember you saying to me, and this was so, this is one of the very first things that started to unlock me understanding my brain and like removing that kind of stuff so that I was letting go of comparison. And, um, I remember you said to me, well, let’s kind of do it a test. And you said like, Um, follow all these accounts, but like it was really the awareness around when I was doing it, what my brain was saying
Katherine Iscoe: 18:33
and yes, because I think you said, and I remember this is you found them inspirational. Yeah. I don’t know if you remember. Yeah. So I was like, do you? Let’s,
Heidi Anderson: 18:45
let’s talk about that. Yeah.
Katherine Iscoe: 18:46
Let’s, let’s, you know, dig down a bit. And then basically my head was like bullshit.
Heidi Anderson: 18:52
Yeah. Yeah. Bullshit. And, and that’s the thing. I liked the people, but I wasn’t fine. Like those. And this might be you listening right now. You might be following these accounts. Um, I was obsessed with trying to lose weight all the time, weighing yourself every day, which was me measuring myself in the mirror 20 times a day, like, you know, seeing how much weight I’d lost or put on or how bloated I was. And I remember following these accounts and I said that to you. And then when I did the whole kind of, it was a couple of weeks, I, I, um, muted them or unfollowed them. And then when I came, like, came back on. It was like, we’ll see how you feel when you go back to them. And that’s when it was like, Oh no, they’re not inspirational. They were actually triggering me because I noticed how clear my mind was on socials for those two weeks. I wasn’t having those negative thoughts. And then, so I actually ended up teaching a whole bunch of people that, you know, that tool, because it’s like. It’s so fucking easy, but you don’t realize that it’s hard. Yeah. Right. Because you,
Katherine Iscoe: 19:54
there’s two, two people in your mind. There’s like, no, you’re, you’re stronger than this. You don’t, you’re not jealous of them. You have to be inspirational and you have to. You know that’s that person in the cave saying, no, no, no, don’t go that way. It’s even scarier. Yes. You go back to what you know and you have to talk through that and learn that
Heidi Anderson: 20:13
sneaky person’s language. Yeah, yeah. Well you were, so, I speak a lot about confidence now and you know my book’s called Drunk on Confidence cuz I was always the girl who was drunk. And finding my confidence through being drunk. Yes. You know, sleeping around, well this is obviously before husband and boyfriend, you know, when you were here for the Gfo ride. But Yes. You know, before that it was like getting drunk and finding that confidence on the weekend where people thought I was funny. I could, I was wearing clothes and not feeling that comfortable. So I would drink to take away the emotional labor of thinking about it. And yeah, I numb. I was numbing girl. Yeah. I was numbing those inner mean girls. Yes. And. So you, I remember even another massive moment for me was when I went on holidays with Griffo and we ended up getting engaged and yeah, yeah, yeah, it’s like a new, I’ve come to a session with you and I’d never been on a holiday where I hadn’t been obsessed. with how much I would put on what I was eating, you know, that emotional toll. And it was the first holiday that I ever went on. So it must’ve been 2017 and I’ve been working with you and I went on this holiday and we got engaged and it was amazing. Um, and it was, you know, all that pressure going on in my head. But I remember getting back and going like, fuck, I didn’t think about my weight the whole entire time. And I wore swimmers, you know, and I remember getting some photos in my So huge for someone who’d always covered up her arms and yeah, that they were like, but that was the work that we’ve been doing, like the awareness that, you know, um, really trying to understand those inner mean girls at the beginning. And then from, since I, you know, have had little methods and yeah, and I left radio and I realized and published my book, obviously I can’t forget that, um, but I realized. That I couldn’t keep going the way that I was going and I had this huge breakthrough moment And it was when I was 30 weeks pregnant And I remember I wanted to buy a bikini which was like just out of the question and one of my girlfriends was like no I think you could she’s like you’re 30 weeks pregnant like who gives a shit. Yeah, and she this permission slip And I remember going down to Kmart or Target, wherever I bought a 30 string black bikini. And I remember standing in the mirror and the mean girls were fucking loud. Like the like girls in the cave that you talk about, or I talk about, you know, the inner mean girls in my head and they were loud as fuck. Um, really mean, like you can’t wear that, that you’re so fucking disgusting. Even though I’ve got this like beautiful baby belly, it did look like I’d smashed a few hamburgers. I wasn’t super wrapped, which I think you and I had done some sessions when I first found out I was pregnant and my weight stuff came up. hugely for me. Yeah. Cause I was, you know, cause you couldn’t tell that I was pregnant and I was starting to hear limbo. Yeah. I was in the weird limbo zone and I remember sitting in here and then when I ended up going off to, you know, my 30 weeks. Uh, I think we went on our babymoon in Peru and I remember going, okay, fuck it, I’m going to just put this bikini on. And I remember standing on the beach and Griffo was just teary and he had these tears running down his eyes because he’d just taken 5, 000 photos of me or whatever. I was like posing in all these poses. And he was like, what’s happening? Like, who are you? And he said, this is just so beautiful to see this confidence. And, you know, he got quite emotional, even though now he’s like, Oh, do you know, I don’t remember that. I don’t like you were such a pivotal moment. And I remember looking down at my tummy. I didn’t know it was Memphis. You know, I didn’t know if it was a boy or a girl. And I remember thinking. I can’t go on the way that I’m going on with all of the noise. I cannot pass this onto this child. Like it really stops now. And so everything that we’ve been working through, all of the other things that I’ve been doing just kind of just snowballed into this big like ball. And it was just kind of like, I threw it in the ocean and it just, everything just kind of dissipated that. Is that the right word? Like, you know, exploded. And from there, honestly, I barely ever question the way that I look. I, it was like this moment of acceptance. That I was like, no, no, no, no, no, you aren’t going to win girls. Yes. And not today. Not today. And then, and that for me now, as I say to many people, like through all the different things that I do, and I do so many different things now, but it was that ripple effect of that one area in my life that I was. with my body is now like opened up this space in my mind, but it was like just rippled into other areas, you know, and the confidence has come through to speak on more stages. Cause if you remember, I was so scared to speak on stages, even though the radio, Yeah, it’s
Katherine Iscoe: 25:06
so true that sometimes when we find that block and we yeah, I live today. We looked at that. It’s amazing how You know go see all different areas, but especially in your relationship.
Heidi Anderson: 25:18
Katherine Iscoe: 25:18
I’m gonna you know when you talked about like the Griffo era. Yeah, I remember that probably more even more
Heidi Anderson: 25:24
Katherine Iscoe: 25:25
yes, then you talking about your body because You know a paraphrase here or a summit here, but it was Like,
Heidi Anderson: 25:34
I don’t, why would this guy like me? Yes. Oh my God. A hundred percent. Oh. And he’s going to leave me. Yeah. He, um, he never, ever mentioned my weight. Ever. And he saw how obsessed I was with like the weighing myself, the, you know, measuring myself. And, you know, like I said, holidays, not being able to relax and, you know, ended up drinking so much on holidays because I couldn’t switch my brain off. So that’s just what I would do to switch my brain off. And yeah, he, and I genuinely thought, and because maybe he didn’t propose for ages.
Katherine Iscoe: 26:11
And it was almost like you were fighting for it because you’re like, if I could just get that, like, I can get that validation. Yes.
Heidi Anderson: 26:18
It was, I’m glad you agree. Yeah. Oh my God. A hundred percent. But I, I guess for me, everything came from the weight. Do you know what I mean? Like, I feel like that was the anxiety, the, you know, that I would experience and everything. But it’s funny we talk about that with Griffo because we’re now going through, you know. Marriage, like five years this year, 10 years together and having a child. Like, I genuinely understand why people get divorced after children because you, yeah. And you just drift. You know, and then having my career, like I put my career on hold, like I left, you know, and then I published my book. So yes, I’ve got other parts of my passion that I was bringing out, but this identity that I was every single day that I hugely identified with and then he left FIFO and we lived together for the first time full time with a baby and then he didn’t have a switch that went Click. I’m a dad. I know what to do. He, looking back and reflecting, we shared a lot on our podcast called First Time Parents and we pretty much documented our time as first time parents. But what we probably didn’t see and now like in reflection is that he definitely had like postpartum connection struggles. And, you know, I think the guys like, although the woman has been through much, so much physically, her identity, emotional, she’s just the feeding machine. There is this part that I feel like we do really need to nurture these dads. Because I’ve seen it like he, I had time, I guess, to like go through my identity when I was going through my pregnancy, like the loss of that person. And then in those first few months, but for him, it was a whole other ballgame. And you know, girls talk, we talk, I’ve seen on this podcast, I’m sharing and you know. Whereas they don’t. And so their backpacks just get really fucking heavy. And I honestly, Dr. Kat, like he’s only just got his spark back in his eyes. Like he, yeah. And our whole season three of First Time Parents is going to be about our relationship. Like we’re going through relationship therapy and you know, and this is the honest truth. Six months ago, I was ready to walk because I was like, I can’t. I can’t do this anymore. I wanted to walk. So this is why this came up because I was always the girl that was so scared that he was going to leave me and I wanted him to change. And that was the only thing. Cause he was just stuck in his rut. Like he was coming home drinking. He lost all motivation. He works his fucking ass off. He’s a great, you know, he’s, he’s great manager at his new place. His career’s going amazing. But you know, he works nine hours a day. Like he’s, and he just, he lost all motivation. He kept talking, but not taking any action. And I honestly, like I was going through all my book stuff and so much was coming up. But I literally remember us screaming one night, I remember holding Memphis’s hand and I was like, I just want a fucking divorce, like, and it just came out my mouth. And then for me, the person who would always probably scream my communication out in our first bit of a relationship because I didn’t know how to communicate, I just shut down. And when I reflected, I was like, do you know what, the last few months I haven’t fought for us. Cause all I did was I felt like I fought for us for those first few years of Memphis’s life. And I’d given up. I’d been, I was doing everything for my book and this and that. And I said to him, and he was like, I just feel like I want to run sometime. And he had tears in his eyes and I said, well fucking run. Cause do you know what? I said, for the first time, I want to see what it feels like. Because I want us to actually see what it feels like to see if this is going to, like, to fight for us. Cause I said, have you noticed? I’ve stopped fighting. And hey, that was Massive. Oh my God. Yeah. I’m going to need
Katherine Iscoe: 30:00
therapy after this. I
Heidi Anderson: 30:01
know. But you know me, I can’t, I’m like, I’m very honest in this because, you know, Griff and I, like, we’re not there anymore and it’s just, but we also like believe that we want to save other people’s relationships. Like we just have this human, like human. in our selves that like, that’s why we want to be of service. And we actually find talking on our podcast has saved our relationship. And that, I reckon it saved us those first few years of Memphis because we had conversations where we weren’t getting angry or defensive or, you know, those patterns behaviors from, you know, watching our parents and. So we actually used to hear each other and then we had that phase where we both got lost and we drifted apart and I was focusing on my business. All my needs were getting met there. He was, you know, he was actually probably just like you said, lost and resentful and Memphis, like had a lot of anger and resentment towards our son because he changed everything. Yes. You know, like it obviously, that’s what, you know, that’s what he was feeling and thinking. And just recently it’s like his spark is back and our spark is, you know, back. And so I guess I want to share this because I feel like so many parents go through this, but it’s not a huge, thing. It’s kind of like, it’s hard. And then you just kind of get on with it. And it’s like, no, no. What about the actual conversations from this? You know, like, because I fully, if you look 50% of people get divorced and mostly most of it happens after kids. Yes, it sure does. Yeah. So it’s, yeah, there’s a bit of a few bombs
Katherine Iscoe: 31:43
for you. I mean, who cares about the secret that you chose? I mean, it’s redundant now, but there’s so many secrets in there. So many secrets. And, um, you know, I can’t remember when, but, um, actually maybe I haven’t said this publicly, but, um, Vlado, yeah,
Heidi Anderson: 32:00
broke up twice at the beginning of this, or what, what are we in? 2023. Oh yeah, so it would have been last,
Katherine Iscoe: 32:05
so a year ago. Wow. A year ago. And I’ve always said, I’ll do a podcast about it, but it’s funny when it’s almost like we did drift apart in so many ways, yet we are, uh, you know, it was the best thing that ever happened to us. Yeah. But at that time, even we were, I was sitting in my office chair, he was sitting here and we were trying to figure out, okay, what are we going to do with the apartments? How are we going to sort that out? Like to that point that we were arranging. Separate.
Heidi Anderson: 32:35
Separate. Yeah. Separation. Yeah.
Katherine Iscoe: 32:37
And I was thinking to myself, like I literally went through the pattern of, so maybe I’ll move back in with my dad for a bit, and then I’ll, you know, go back to Toronto. I was going for all those plans that I had to that extent. But the reason why I’m saying that is because it really depends on whether you want to fight for each other. 100%. And if there’s something there. And I remember, obviously my girlfriends are wonderful, and one of them said, you know, I was going through, like, this is what happened, that, and I was angry, and I was sad, and it was this and that, and she just asked me a simple question, but do you love him? And it was, yes. Yeah. Like, no question. I know,
Heidi Anderson: 33:14
I’m gonna start crying. Yeah, me too.
Katherine Iscoe: 33:16
And it, and I guess that was my litmus test. It was, there’s always gonna be shit. Always. There’s always gonna be those annoying things. There’s always gonna be values that we don’t agree on or agree on, which is massive. But the question is, do you love each other? And if there is that love. Yeah. And we went to counseling as
Heidi Anderson: 33:34
well. Yeah. And this is the thing. I feel like counseling gets a bad rap. There’s still a stigma around it. And I’m like, even I say to my girlfriends, if you’re in a relationship and you love someone, like this is what I believe. And it’s the first few years people think, Oh, but we’re fighting, we’re doing this. And it’s like, so we should break up. And it’s like, no, actually that’s a fucking good thing that you’re fighting because you’re seeing like what your patterns are. You’re seeing like what shit you’re saying and how you can react. And if you get the right help. You actually work through that. Through it. Yeah. Back to that.
Katherine Iscoe: 34:06
Exactly. It’s always through. Yeah. It’s not around. It’s not under, it’s not over top. It’s through. Yeah. And we spend so much time and energy thinking, oh, there must be a simple solution, which is
Heidi Anderson: 34:16
breaking up. Yeah. I think that’s the easy option. It’s so easy. I know that it’s obviously technically with your house and kids and blah, blah, blah. Like I do believe that, you know, but the hard work is the daily work that we do. And that’s where Griffo and I like, we are fucking working so fucking hard on our relationship. We started the podcast again, because that was like we said, just, it’s like having a mediator in the room. I was, it’s exact. I was going to say the audience is like a mediator. And so you, you know, there is times if you look back at our podcasts and I’m like, we have got heated with each other. We’ve cut each other off. You could hear the tension, but we still published it. And now it’s like, you will see the growth in us. If you go back and listen to some of our discussions and then now here, we’re having these. Really deep combos and here and asking questions, whereas when you start to get like, so one of the things that I’m struggling with at the moment is he doesn’t think he wants another child and I do. And so that was, it’s huge. Because it’s like, well, what do you do again? Like, do I play into that whole, like, Oh, well, do we leave? Like, do I leave? But then it’s like, you’ve got to find someone else and break up your whole family. And if you’re so yearning to have that baby, right. And then it’s like, but I’m 40 next year. And so there’s so many different things. So we were like, well, fuck, let’s just do this publicly. And we, cause otherwise I shut down. If we try and talk about it, I hear him say, like, I don’t know if that’s what I want. Like I instantly go into, um, freeze. Yeah. And I’m like, I’ve got all these things I want to say in my head, but I literally can’t get them out. Yeah. Whereas when we’re on the podcast. It’s like, okay, I actually understand why he doesn’t want another kid. Like I get it, like, and I hear that, like, I think it’s so much his nervous system. I think he’s still operating from this kind of traumatic place that he was and like his host. So his whole body says, fuck, no, fuck. No. Like, look at this, Heidi, our careers, like our whole life pretty much blew up. Like you left radio, I left this, we started this, we had this house, we had all this financial pressure and now like interest rates, all that shit. And so instantly he’s like,
Katherine Iscoe: 36:24
Heidi Anderson: 36:24
then like with Memphis, how, how tough it’s been for him to like build that connection. And, but I, what I keep holding onto is the work that we’re doing now. I’m hoping that’s going to bring us to a place. And also, um, Dr. Kat, I’ve just become so spiritual that I’m talking to like guardian angels. I even talked to them before I came here and just trusting in a different way that, and I heard someone speak the other day and she said, she’s, she’s a spiritual leader and she’s like, you think they put you on earth without a backup team? And that for me has just given me so much. Faith. Yes. That, cause. I love that. Same. Her name’s Rachel Grace, by the way. I heard her speak the other day. I will, like, I was like, what’s her name again? But it was Rachel Grace. And she said that. And it landed so hard for me. Me too. Because, well, when I was into a thick of it, with Griffo. One of the ladies that I’d been coaching with, Dong, she said, have you spoke to your guides? Have you, you know, and for years I was like, fuck off. Coming from a family that were atheist, you know, logic, science, not when you’re dead, you’re dead. Nothing happens. So I’ve been too woo woo. And like me, that’s probably such a huge part of the last three years for me is I’ve been going deep into that space and wanting to hear more. And I remember just thinking like after that fight with Griffo, where it was like, I’m not going to fight for us right now. I need you to, and he has, he’s fucking fighting and it’s so beautiful and it’s so like sexy and I’m like excited and you know, have this faith. But I said, I started speaking to my nan and I started talking to her and I said, Can you just give me some kind of sign? I’d love like white feathers. Memphis and I pick up feathers on the way to the beach and we say, thanks universe more please. And I was like, but I, they’re always black ones. And I was like, I just want a white one because I was like, I need a sign. Anyway, woke up the next morning, Memphis and I were like, let’s go to Hillary’s boat Harbor today. You know, somewhere different. We can go down there, not even thinking about how I was feeling that day before and what I’d asked for. And when we got to Hillary’s Boat Harbor, because we normally go to Mullaloo Beach every morning where we have our coffee and play. I’m not joking, hundreds of white feathers just, yeah, scattered all along the, like where we were. And Memphis was like, look at this, like, you know, this little three and a half year old, like wanting to collect them all. And for me, I was just like, what the fuck? But then add more layers to this. So I had that like, Oh yes, that’s, and then I remember messaging Dom and I was like. So, you know, this happened, but you know, the logical brain comes in and she goes, Oh, isn’t that funny? We asked for a sign and then when we get it, we questioned it. Yeah. And, uh, and I was like, Oh my God, so right. So I’ve got, okay, that’s it. Like that’s our sign. And it felt like there was. What do this piece and I was seeing Griffo make all this effort. Yeah. We were just recently coming home. So this is about six months later from my brother’s 40th the other weekend. And I was watching Elvis on the plane and I was crying because that was my Nan’s favorite artist. And you know, I just, the song that he sings right at the end of the movie of the documentary about his life was my Nan’s funeral song. And I was sitting there like crying, and you know, they say you fucking cry on planes anyway, like they say. That’s. The one place everyone just loses it. And Memphis just looked at me and I said to Griffo, And a three and a half year old kid. He said, Mummy, That was, um, Nanny Brenda at Hillary’s that day. Like, But he was questioning and stumbling his way through it as like a three year old, like, Where is this information? Do you know what I mean? And I looked at Griffo, the hell? How old are you? And that’s it. And the only thing that I can think is that because I was in that moment, just so thinking about my nan and crying because this movie and stuff, and then him saying that it just,
Katherine Iscoe: 40:23
and for no reason, for no reason,
Heidi Anderson: 40:24
came out of nowhere, came out of nowhere. Ooh. Yeah. And so for me, it’s like, that’s been a huge part of my development into like Griffo and I taking our relationship and actually working through it has been this trust. And I’m calling in the backup team, saying,
Katherine Iscoe: 40:47
yes, it’s such an evolution. And I actually looked up the etymology, which is like the, where it was come from. Oh yeah. The other day, the evolution, love that. And it’s actually the unrolling of what has been rolled up. I was like, what?
Heidi Anderson: 41:02
So the unrolling of what’s being rolled
Katherine Iscoe: 41:04
up. Yeah. And I thought, isn’t that funny? Because life kind of rolls us up. Right. You know, the nasty people on the radio. You know, you start rolling into yourself. Yes. You know, with the relationship, all of a sudden you protect yourself. You start being really quiet and you can’t speak and all these things roll you up. And then there’s just something that is unrolling, you’re relaxing and then you know, you get rolled up again. Yes. And that’s, and that just hit home for me so much. Yeah. Cause it’s such a visual kind of, you think it was like a, you know, those. Yeah. And it almost sounds like you were rolled up in that moment and yeah, beautiful little boy
Heidi Anderson: 41:44
just unrolled you. Yes. Oh my God. He has done that to me so much. And, you know, you speaking of that, I kind of see in my head, you know, as like I talked about like the armoring up. Yes. Yes. And I think like, that’s what he’s doing is cracking me open and you know, Griffo has done that in so many ways. But then I’ve also like. shut down and covered it up. And it’s like, it’s that whole thing of like you said, you just, something happens and then you start to unravel and then it’s like, no, don’t you can’t come to my heart. And that I think is like the biggest issue in society is we’re all walking around with armor, afraid of like, it’s the fear, fate of the fucking cave, afraid of the bear. And so we just keep. Our card’s really close, and it is, like, Dr. Brené Brown, like, you know, the whole vulnerability piece, it all comes back to that. And, yeah, it’s, that’s why I think Griffo and I are able to work through what we’re working through, because we can be vulnerable with each other. Just sometimes need it to do it publicly.
Katherine Iscoe: 42:47
Whatever works for you. Yeah. And it’s, it’s interesting you say that, like, you know, the cards and the armor and so forth. I was speaking to a lady that I’m going to be working with, um, intimately with over the next few months. And she said she was looking at my videos and so forth. And she said, some may hear it, but she said, I don’t feel like that’s you. And this is from like videos from a while ago. Yeah. And it was funny. Exactly. Then for the past couple of years, it’s just been like, Yeah. Totally. And you know, all this stuff happened, you know, last year. Yeah. We’ve left our land. Yeah. With everything. It was just like, I’m done. Yeah. It’s done. And it’s funny, you know, she, a stranger basically, saw it, she followed it. Oh, but isn’t it funny, like
Heidi Anderson: 43:32
that was the same when I did it on the radio all those years ago and spoke openly about my anxiety and then I think that’s kind of when we started working together then or was it afterwards? After. After, yeah. And it’s funny because I think that’s why I had to say it because I felt like people were starting to see that I wasn’t being me. And so I totally relate to
Katherine Iscoe: 43:52
that. And now you are definitely you because you’re even basically naked.
Heidi Anderson: 43:59
Oh, it’s true. Like, uh, and you think about, like I said, the girl who sat on here, which, like I said, I feel like so much of it was around body confidence, although it was coming at me all different angles and it was. It’s all about validation, validation from Griffo, validation from the public, validation from my parents, like all of those different things, which I’m still working through and still a work on progress, but I would never have got my arms out. And then literally just recently, that’s why you mentioned the naked thing, uh, just did my first nude. Sunrise photo shoot with 20 women. And this was huge for me. I stood in front of them and led the way as I took each piece of clothing off with beautiful Jana, my, um, Soul sister who we do a lot of her movement is it’s safe to be soft. So very much about like the de armoring and yes, getting in the ring and you know, fighting for yourself and exactly all the stuff we spoke about. And then mind share your shit. So, you know, like get letting go of all the bullshit that we’ve told ourselves and you know, all those years of self hate and the baggage and you know, I just do it in extreme ways. Exposure, therapy. And that doesn’t sound like you at all. Well, you know, a go fart or go home baby. That’s it. And yeah, and I stood there and I remember. For me, it was like my vulva was out and my boobs and my tummy and my arms. And I just, like, we all went for a swim and, you know, at first it was like that little bit of scary, like, fuck, they’re really seeing me and they were feeling the same, you know? And then when we got out of the swim and we’d had all these photos, it just felt so normal, Kat. It just felt so normal and I stood there leading the group. Some people got dressed, some people were eating, and I stood there just. And it now has unraveled more for me, like I just went to International Women’s Day event the other day, wore a kick ass amazing suit, but I actually had my tummy out, which people will be like, but you can get naked in front of people, so why not? And it’s like, well, no, cause these pants were quite tight. There was a tiny, it was a tiny little boob tube and I had this big jacket on, it got so hot. And the old Heidi would have just dealt with the sweat, the like hot, like, fuck, can we go find an air con? I was like, nah. I’m just gonna take it off and it was this moment, nothing bad happened. I didn’t die. Maybe someone judged me, but who cares? I I’m not going to give my power to them because I felt fucking hot. And so for me, that naked swim and that moment of standing and leading people, it was this moment of like, um, another layer for me, like another, you know, layer of, even though I thought I’d pushed it so far and that I was really made it with my body confidence. It was like, Oh no, no, no, the emotional labor of clothes now and how you feel in that. This is the next level that you’re going to push through. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Miss Kay. Yes,
Katherine Iscoe: 46:45
so much so that I mean you weren’t naked on channel
Heidi Anderson: 46:48
10. No, I was wearing my bra and undies on national TV. I’m going to be doing it again this week. I know. Tell
Katherine Iscoe: 46:55
us all about that. And we’ll, we’ll put in obviously all the links. Yeah. Watch it again. Yeah. But tell, tell us even how that happened. And also like. How does the networkers say, like, yeah, we want, we want a pretty much naked person on our show.
Heidi Anderson: 47:09
They love it. They love it. Oh, sure. And you know, I’m not the Bromfitt. Yes. I remember when she did her, she did her red bikini and stuff. And she’s been such an inspiration for both of us. I know for her movement and now being Australian of the Year. And she’s led the way for people like you and I to have these conversations. The bra and undies thing just started because I just started stripping off on stage, like when I was doing my keynote speaking and getting down into my bra and undies to really show people because exposure therapy is so works for me. Like that’s how I’ve pushed through so much shit. And if you’re in a safe space, I promise you it can work for anyone. It’s, it’s one of the best things that I’ve ever discovered. And the thing is, I was always doing exposure therapy. I just actually didn’t know it was that, you know, like through showing up on the radio every day when I was shit scared and like terrible at my job and had a fake laugh, like, you know, all those years ago, but. I showed up and I exposed myself to the feedback, to those comments, to every single day. And so I was constantly, you know, exposing myself. So the walk of no shame was us in our bra and undies in Perth. And I did it a year after Memphis was born, because again, I was at this point where I was like, well, fuck I’m, I can get photographed down the beach in my bra and undies. And I was trying to sell a self love workshop. I had girls in my program and I’m like. What would be really uncomfortable? And I’m like, well, Rowan Undie’s in a shopping centre, in a busy shopping centre, that would be like the most petrifying thing I could ever think of. So you’ve gotta do it. And then I pitched it to the girls in my, um, in my program, and six of them, who weren’t even ready to get photographed on the beach. Yes, honey, we’ll do it with you or seven of them. I can’t remember. And they were like, yeah, we’ll do it with you. You
Katherine Iscoe: 48:56
went up an escalator, I
Heidi Anderson: 48:57
think. Yeah. We literally just walked through and did all these crazy things around a shopping center that you would do when you were wearing your clothes, going shopping with your family, doing your groceries or whatever. And we were met with unbelievable, like, cheers and tears and this empowering, like life changing moment. And I just remember being like, fuck, this is not. scary. This is like what we’re supposed to do. And some lady was like, what are you protesting? And I was like, we’re not, we’re here to, you know, and then I was like, actually we are, we’re protesting unrealistic beauty standards, the expectations that society and others put on us. And all of that came up and I was like, wow. And then two weeks later, I got a phone call from SBS and they’re putting together a documentary. What does Australia really think about obesity? Yes. And that’s how it kind of all has compounded and. That was two years ago, and I’m still talking about it, still about to do Melbourne Fashion Week next week. We’re going to be going in our bra and undies, crashing Melbourne Fashion Week in between two shows. In, you know, the area where everyone’s having a drink and everything, we’re going to be coming out in our bra and undies, we’re going to be filmed and we’re going to be on studio 10 that morning, pumping it up. Um, and then that’s how the studio 10 stuff started. I went on in my bra and undies for, um, when I was promoting my podcast and they loved my movement and they loved the message that I was doing and that was just promoting my podcast actually. But we turned it into this 10 minute segment where it was all about women. Empowerment and our bodies and the conversations around our bodies and getting in your bra and undies is not going to be for everyone. And that’s probably not everyone’s next step to do it publicly, but it might be your next step to do it in your bedroom. And it might, you know, and sit and face yourself in the mirror and it might be your next step to walk out to. The letterbox. Yeah. Or wear your bikini at the beach, or buy it, just even buy the bikini and have it in your house for three years. Like that’s what I did. Yeah. You know, like, um, and so for me, the glass ceiling, is it the glass ceiling that I want to keep breaking through, you know, finding myself in a cave every day is like the 10 again next week. And then the Melbourne Fashion Festival, it’s just the, you know, the challenges and the conversations that come from it. Before my last walk of no shame in the shopping center, I’d just been on studio 10 in Sydney and I was promoting my book, I was on my book tour, I did a free event in Sydney. I was about to go to Melbourne and one of my videos went viral in the US. So again, this is two years after I ever did it. And so the conversation that can keep happening from this one empowering moment, and now I’ve turned it into, you know, several conversations and now networks wanting to work with it and continue the conversation, this video went viral and I have never been trolled so hard in my life. I was, I was about to ask you, yeah, it was insane. And a lot of people say, you know, but why are you reading those comments? Well, when they come on your page, I don’t read the things that people say on when I’m on studio 10 and if they’ve got it on their Facebook page, I don’t read that because there’s going to be people that don’t understand, there’s going to be people that it’s going to bring up their shit. There’s going to be mean motherfuckers everywhere always, you know? And so I choose not to read in other places, but when it comes onto your own page and I was checking comments and things from my event in Sydney and promoting my book, it was just like. negative comment after, I’ve never experienced like 24 hours of like, I get it. Like when these kids or, you know, you’re getting trolled online, just bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, mean stuff. And I ended up doing a post only the other day, which is maybe that’s what you saw. And they were quite nice. The comments that people had said, like, and they were still mean, but these comments were horrific. And I questioned again. You know how going back to the girl that messaged me when my book came out, I started to question my message. Like, do I get in my bra and undies? Do I do this? Am I doing, am I putting these other people at risk that want to come with me and just started questioning everything. And what I realized in that moment was I was scared. I was just scared. I was genuinely scared and fear had been, fear was rearing its head. I started to hear. Maybe question what they were saying was, is this true? And then I had to come back to myself and I reached out to a couple of my girlfriends who are leaders in that space. And then again, it just came back to the conversation is bigger than you, mate. This is your test from the universe. If you really want to change the world heights, which is what, you know, the impact, you know, that may mean that’s what we want to do. If you really want to do that, you’re going to have this. You’re going to have people that don’t understand, and in fact, what these people are saying is why you fucking want to get it out there. And so it was just like, fuck, why is the universe doing this to me? But I used all my tools. 24 hours before sitting in the hotel room. Cause you know, I’m away from my son, my husband, my girlfriends, I’d be out drinking after my event in Sydney with my girls. Cause you know, we’re celebrating not seeing each other for a couple of years, COVID and then, you know, my book and everything. And so when I’m low vibe, That’s, you know, tiredness, exhaustion, putting yourself out there, you get the shame hangover and then people are negative. So all these things, I had to use everything in my tool belt and I journaled it out. I reached out to friends, I did some breathwork, I asked for friends to help me with tools. I woke up the next morning and I was fucking ready to go and I was like, yes. And that’s what I think a lot of people don’t have. They don’t have those tools or they’re too afraid to reach out and say that they’re scared. And that’s what I did. I, I just cried and I said, I’m, I’m actually scared. I’m scared of that bear right now. And so, yeah. And then that, um, photo shooting Melbourne is now how I’ve got to Melbourne fashion week now. And they want to change the conversation around bodies and the fashion industry seeing, you know, all body types as beautiful. So yes, that’s a long story to get there, but we got there. Oh, I love it. And
Katherine Iscoe: 55:00
I sometimes when I think about trolls and. And those comments, that’s their
Heidi Anderson: 55:05
Katherine Iscoe: 55:06
Yeah. They’re in their own cave. They’re scared. Mm. And when you’re scared, you do two things. You either hide or you fight. Yes. Right? You know, fight or fear. Yeah. When you, when you’re down, when you’re feeling dark, you want to pull people into your darkness. Mm. I, I know it because I’ve done it before. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Or when you’re, because I went through major, major depression, and all you do is you look around and you’re like. They shouldn’t be living that amazing life. How can I pull them down, even though it might be what’s in my mind? You know, also saying, oh, they’re a bitch. Or, you know, the only reason why they’re successful is because of luck, or because of how they look. And you start
Heidi Anderson: 55:47
Katherine Iscoe: 55:48
project, yeah, and you start, and then you find yourself in their cave. Or in someone else’s cave, and I just, it’s so, it’s so easy to do. Yeah. It’s so easy to listen to the loud voices of others rather than the quiet voices of ourselves. And gosh golly, so, now,
Heidi Anderson: 56:05
tools. Yes. No, well I was going to say, it’s interesting, because like, I get this question a lot too, like about trolls, and I totally understand. And this is where I’m like, oh, and I’d love to know your thoughts on this, because it’s like, yeah, these are, like, hurt people hurt people, they say that. But then I’m like, aren’t they just assholes as well? Like, do you know what I mean? Is it that they have to be going through some, like, I do think that sometimes, like, cause, like, do you know what I mean? Cause some of these things are just blatantly just so mean. And I’m like, are you really hurt or are you just an asshole? Like. I think, I think they’re hurt. Yeah, and like, I want to believe that, but sometimes, and it’s like, I know, you know, when I look back at myself at school and I’m like, yeah, I definitely was going through that hurt stage when my brother was so depressed and I thought I was going to lose my brother and, you know, I was always the fat friend, like I had all these body image issues coming up and always wanted, well the boy’s one of my friends, but I know for me that was like a hurt thing. Yeah. But then sometimes the way that I just treat my mom and dad, like, I’m like, Oh, I’m just an arsehole
Katherine Iscoe: 57:06
sometimes. Do you know what I mean? I do. And I’m just sort of thinking that, you know, the most, there’s always in high school, the most popular people, right? Like they’re on that pedestal, even in their situation. And, you know, I’m just thinking, but if you’re up on a pedestal and even if your life is going perfectly. And everything is going right and everyone loves you. Yeah. That’s almost in a worse position.